I thought it was far-fetched that anyone here (as in most places in western society) would subscribe to Nazism, yes, but no matter how much I could have researched the guild, there would be no way to entirely alleviate my doubt without asking. I wouldn't have wanted to join a guild only to have discovered later on everyone's a skinhead with memberships in the KKK, or is planting tulips around shrines to Hitler.

I was aware of the Latin phrase and its meaning (it's a favorite of mine actually), and I did know that Roman combat groups were denominated as Legions, though it slipped my mind when I posted. Regardless, one cannot deny that the guild's emblem bears a striking resemblance to not only what the Romans bore, but what Hitler and others bore as well. Numerous members have already acknowledged that it was not unreasonable for me to have had thought the invidious relationship possible. Understandably, most people in the guild thought it ludicrous and absurd to spin up the possibility of a negative interpretation: but it's because they are all familiar with their home. And I didn't mean to come here and trample on that home, only to discover a truth. Hence why I offered my apology beforehand.

As to WWII:

Yes, over 45 million people died. Only 6 million were Jews--but this is out of a world population of only about 9 or 10 million Jews. Over 70% of any group was not lost, and so Jews tend to be a little more wary about pockets of anti-semites after that "lesson."

My question wasn't a "knee-jerk" reaction. It was a question. In my mind only statements can truly be out of place, not questions. It wasn't firm in my mind that anyone here was a national socialist, and I was interested in finding out. If I came here thinking you were all Nazis, and flat-out said so, with righteous indignation, and asked you to prove me wrong, then I would have been way out of place. But as it stands, there's no denying the resemblance of your guild emblem to the Nazi's emblem, and so I felt it was necessary to know the truth. Anything's possible in my mind--I really don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

ow an OT, i lolled.

Please post these kind of things during .EU working hours. thanks!

Aaaah the inquisitive idiot's last stand!

Seriously though, you must be kidding...

Nope. The intent of an earnest question is not to insinuate, but to discover. Answers should be treated accordingly.

The problem comes at the level of interpretation, where people ignore the fact that something is asked, rather than imposed.

As I stated. I agree that you question was warranted. Perhaps I should have worded the "out of place" a little better. More so as a time and/or a place. There is never really a good or a bad time for this sort of question, but, as for a place. A public forum is definitely not the place.

Do not get me wrong. I do see where you are coming from, I can understand what you may have felt intially, but on a topic this sensitive, you can't make, or shall I say question, or even insinuate, propose, suggest, whatever you will, something of this magnitude on a public forum.

This is like standing on a stage at a concert and asking the same question of the crowd. I assure you, you would be greeted with the same sort of hostility. Your question is warranted, your reasoning behind the question is clear. The reason you are getting such an up-roar is the manner and place in which the question was presented. Had this question been presented to one of the Command members of Legion, this "flame war" could have been avoided.

Agreed.

My apologies for the disruption, then.

By posting such an obviously inflamitory question on public boards you're just asking for negative attention. Have a little discression next time.

You frenchies and your loud mouths. Always getting everyone all riled up and shouting at one another.

Ramp or someone else: close the thread & ban user please.

Again, if it was your earnest intent to discover, there were a million other ways to ask.

As for asking a question just being a question... I am sure one of history's most insightfull thinkers (and all who came after him for that matter) wouldn't call his dialectic method 'just questions'. :)

No, I simply have no fear of consequence. Either people would be calm and rational in response, or they would be belligerent and antagonistic. The choice was always entirely yours. I've seen and heard it all before, and neither way bothers me, and the latter way admittedly becomes very entertaining--but I didn't seek it out.

Besides, this thread has gone a long way in ascertaining the character and intelligence of many of the people in Legion, and certainly ensures that once people leave this thread alone, none shall here hear from me again.

Believe me, there's no fun way to ask the question.

And I'm not Socrates.

Hi lokken,

<3

Hello there, what are the origins of the legion logo?

[insert 1000 pseudo-intellectual / historical legionnaires' comments here]

Kthxbye!

Obviously.

I love you bob.

That wasn't my question. Since people are conscious of the social stigma placed on Nazis, it was always my impression that if any Nazi movement existed here, it would be covert, with only an overt nod toward their ideology, as I stated way above, given by the guild's emblem.

Believe me, nothing short of a direct address would have been sufficient.

I just knew you'd say that.

I missed good quality drama because I was using my european timezone hack to sleep :frown:

what I find most amusing about this thread, and some parts of history in general, is that the desired effect of nazi propaganda still rings true in the future.

50 years ago, a national socialistic party decided to "borrow" symbolism from other civilizations in a gest to make their own look "superior".

In most cases, we do not remember the old civilization or culture that used those symbols (the swastica for example) but only their more modern implication.

anyway, the eagle nowadays is more associated with the USA then with any other culture, I truly dont understand why you would link it to the use of it by Axis forces in the second world war. You do realize, the americans were using their eagle aswell by this time?.

As someone put it down in big words which it is too early for me to comprehend fully due to a severe lack of cafeine;

You had an answer, and you were looking for the question, yet formulated it as a question. :rolleyes:

That is what we call prejudice and guardian behaviour.


*edit*
I have a very big penis

The style of its portrayal (check the picture in the OP).

I had a suspicion, not an answer. How many times must I explain this?

Your GF left you again? :biggrin:

Hi, I'm Russian.
This is my country's state Coat of Arms. Do you have any questions about Natzi symbolic in it for me too?

P.S. Welcome to the boards, hope you don't mind our forum trolls? They are just bored and it was soooo long since last drama...

I would suggest looking up American naval uniform tags during the 44-45 period ;)

So there are similar designs. It doesn't invalidate my question. The Nazis still used that design, and that was the connotation salient in my mind. There's not much more to it than that. I'm far more used to seeing that symbol, in its current style, in conjunction with Nazis than America.

I do find it fairly odd though that America would take such a similar design for their emblem concurrent with the end of the war, though.

I hope you will find many covert neonazi gaming communities that use nazi symbolism in a cryptic fashion in order to conceal their ongoing efforts to indoctriate other gamers with neo-fascistic and/or neo-nazi propaganda.

Sherlock, it's time to light your pipe, kick back and enjoy the unraveling of this hidden conspiracy!

If you had questions about the origins of the guild logo, name or motto then simply ask. you dont need to make suggestions :p

What did you expects by turning up and just asking "hi are you nazi's?", especially with the fact that we do have a largely european member base, and many in countires that suffered greatly during the war.

Common sense imo :o

I cant believe i missed 8 pages of drama!

Funny, but I bet you that at least one or several exist.

Also, gravitas, if i were you I'd quit now. You arent gunna win this one, no-one is gunna turn around and apologise for the flames, you made a stupid, ignorant post, and while you apologised for the "disruption" it caused, you keep defending the things you implied.

All you will be doin now is feeding the flame :(

Ill ask Gren to change the symbol to the swastika so we actualy have something to argue about.

Anyway, just because the Nazi's used a symbol does not make it theirs. Symbolism is not owned by any culture, its the herritage of human kind.

You dont cringe everytime you see a christian cross just because Hitler decided to paint a stylized version of it on the side of his Panzer tanks right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross

Once I addressed to one of the guildies as Natzie (actually after he mentioned he leaved in one german town I asked he if he "Natzi too") and got very negative responce from those germans who were online at that time. Some people in guild are reacting too expressive, sometimes over-reacting. Since then I'm trying to stay out from national/political etc jokes. We have too many different people here.

I suggest you consider this and stop posting here.

Sav puhleaaase! It's friday. This thread is delivering. No need to stop it's momentum!

oh sorry....uhmmmm.....

Fuck you, you fucking.....umm......fuck..tar..d......

i need to practice flaming, i just spent 5mins trying to think of something nasty to say but pulled a blank :(

We all have our talents. But practice makes perfect heh!
Anyway no need to feel :(

I am leaving, though. I've said all I've had to say, and arguing further is fruitless.

I asked a question, and I got a response. A lot was revealed about this guild and about Eagles/Symbolism/Nazis/etc in the process, and I don't regret having asked it.

Good luck, and goodbye.

<3 Imi :p

Buh- bye

if u ever decide to get back here again Gravitas... heres my response after reading all these pages..

if i have gotten all of your ( acording to me, ignorant, childish, blindfolded ) question/assumption/or call it whateva u like...

The short short short answer is:
YES, it has!
but heres the thing! your "question" is wrong !!!!

the short short answer to your question is:
No, but nazi-germany used the eagle and MANY more ALLREADY excisting ( read 100's n´1000's years ago ) symbols for their own purpose.

Wich this comunity of players/friends/whateva is also doing, but not NOT in the name of anythig like that...

when i saw legion the first time, it was in a came called Planetarion, it was a text-based game, extremly addictive..

The only thing i could see about this guild/alliance/comunity was these "banners", "pictures" of what they stood for...

NEVER ever came one thought to mind about anything related to germany other then that of the movie gladiator.. the war in the beginning of the movie..

some history from me..

the only thing, ONLY thing i know about my real inherritence is that my grandfather was a SS-officer who died in WW2 when they attacked France.
My grandmother was just an ordinary person from norway.
My mother was left at a... hmm.. barnhem = childrens home ??!!?? to grow up in... she moved to sweden to look fro relatives after she had grown up abit..
thats the short reason why i live in sweden..

but hey, does that make me to a NAZI ???

hense the reason why i think your "questions" was childish and very grabbed right out in the air, with no solid ground to stay on...

i got upset about your question as well.. mostly cause you asked it wrong with what you are trying to defend later on in your posts!

you have given all the answers but still you are looking for YOUR answer, and justifying it with more "assumtions"... it was a good thing you stopped and left... but i hope you come back after you have reflected on everything you wrote and everyone else wrote, and come to the conclusion, that you blinded screamed wolf with NOTHING to base it to...

you have been given a very interesting site be4:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross

check also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

ps: heh hope i havent started something now... =) tired and havent slept in 2 days, read this quik, wrote this quiker with a broken keyboard... heheh =)

night night PEEPS

ps2: hmm really nice siggeh Savahl i really really liked that eye !!
and a nice site you lead me to as well... thnx

Good morning Rids.

<3

dude axis > allies, mp40 > thompson what?!


videogames





oh btw do you think if we actually were nazis we would be telling you?

And now for an Ode to my good friend Vern (or Shill Dinger you might know him by)

Sieg Heil, baby! SIEG FUCKING HEIL!

ps. before you get all riled up again thats from the HBO show Oz.

I wake up, and this thread is still going. A+ Troll.

FUCKTARD are u just that thick get the fucking point it has nothing to do with nazis now fuck off some here to your hole

I just wanted to say HI

I love you BOB come have nasty gay sex with me and I'll give you a reach around

ok now for a somewhat serious post

fuck that I can't make a serious post this is way too funny, since I can't read words longer then 5 letters some of the posts did not make sense but I was however able to read everything Rids and BDB posted cause well they can't spell words that are longer then 5 letters. All I have to say is can we split the posts up after page 5 you have to start a new post pls, hate trying to click on the small numbers to go to the next page, and I get confused after the number 5.

KKTHXBYE

post counts for the win

God dammit, this thread has gotten too fucking tame.


BTW, I think Grav is actually a Nazi and was just wanting friends :(


Oh, and <3 Bob, glad you came through in true fation since rids seems to have gotten laid or something.