Legion: Nazi Symbolism

[Gravitas]

This is a serious query.

I've been browsing for new Manno guilds and VtS is on my list, however, upon seeing the eagle symbol on your site, along with your official name of Legion (which has its SS connotations), I wanted to know if the guild or any of its members subscribe to what the Nazis stood for.

I realize this post, if my notion is untrue, will invariably be construed as insulting, and if it is untrue I can only offer my apology. I simply must know, however, if it at all occurred to you that this (http://www.pzg.biz/eagle_party_plaque.jpg) is very identifiable with the appearance of your guild symbol.

~Gravitas

[Rids]

Our logo is based on the eagle of the Roman Legions, the eagle that was the standard carried by every single legion into battle for hundreds of years. Our motto's, Strength and Honour, and Victuri te Salutant, are also derived from Roman origins.

[Relifex]

Quite honestly, I don't know how to respond to such stupidity.

[Gravitas]

Originally Posted by Relifex

Quite honestly, I don't know how to respond to such stupidity.

Far from stupid.

Consider my point of view: I know nothing about your guild. I come to this site, and instantly identify that symbol with its most current usage, as many others would. I had a strong reaction to it, and rather than be quiet and remain in interpretative limbo simply so I don't ask a "wrong question," I proceed to determine the truth. I was unaware the Roman Empire adopted that symbol as well, and now it's clarified, but my interpretation remains far from invalid.

It's also quite likely that the Nazis borrowed this aspect of Roman symbolism, as the comparisons between the two empires are mulitple and apt.

I can only wonder if this was at all considered when the guild was being created.

[kacklon]

Originally Posted by Gravitas

Far from stupid.

Consider my point of view: I know nothing about your guild. I come to this site, and instantly identify that symbol with its most current usage, as many others would. I had a strong reaction to it, and rather than be quiet and remain in interpretative limbo simply so I don't ask a "wrong question," I proceed to determine the truth. I was unaware the Roman Empire adopted that symbol as well, and now it's clarified, but my interpretation remains far from invalid.

It's also quite likely that the Nazis borrowed this aspect of Roman symbolism, as the comparisons between the two empires are mulitple and apt.

I can only wonder if this was at all considered when the guild was being created.

The eagle as a symbol is being used in countless ways if you havent noticed. Is this how do you react when you see an eagle symbol in general or just ours?
Either way I pity you.

[Tiddy]

heh... wow


Might want to let this thread disapear before you post your app ;)

lol

[Gravitas]

Originally Posted by Tiddy

heh... wow


Might want to let this thread disapear before you post your app ;)

lol

I realize that an implication of asking my question was to never be accepted into the guild. I accepted that outcome beforehand :P

[Ares42]

Sometimes the person seeks the answer, sometimes the answer seeks the person. I seriously doubt the second is the case here. You're the first person I've ever met that didn't instantly relate this guild to the roman empire.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Ares42

Sometimes the person seeks the answer, sometimes the answer seeks the person. I seriously doubt the second is the case here. You're the first person I've ever met that didn't instantly relate this guild to the roman empire.

Thus our wondering about what his education is.. Most experiences with people who are searching for a truth that would be intreaguing more than plausible or even possible, are quite simply of semi-educated quasi-intellectuals with immense egos, that think they know something nobody else does.

[Gravitas]

Originally Posted by Ares42

Sometimes the person seeks the answer, sometimes the answer seeks the person. I seriously doubt the second is the case here. You're the first person I've ever met that didn't instantly relate this guild to the roman empire.

I was mildly aware of the relation, but if there was any chance of a Nazi implication I needed to know.

You should realize that some people's lives and histories are profoundly influenced by certain large-scale events, and so specific associations are more readily in their minds. I'm Jewish, if this helps you to understand my vector better.

[Ares42]

Originally Posted by Gravitas

I was mildly aware of the relation, but if there was any chance of a Nazi implication I needed to know.

You should realize that some people's lives and histories are profoundly influenced by certain large-scale events, and so specific associations are more readily in their minds. I'm Jewish, if this helps you to understand my vector better.

Sorta prooves what I said.. you were searching for/finding Nazi implications where there is none, might wanna do some more research next time before you ask someone if they're Nazis. As you should know it's not an accusation taken lightly.

[Gaijin]

its a roman empire thing

[Tobler]

Most entertaining thread for awhile lol

[Tiddy]

Well you see, Rome is part of Italy, which was part of the Axis forces. That means Legion isnt a Nazi guild, but just likes to hang out with them and drink all their beer.

[Bociwen]

Originally Posted by Gravitas

This is a serious query.

I've been browsing for new Manno guilds and VtS is on my list, however, upon seeing the eagle symbol on your site, along with your official name of Legion (which has its SS connotations), I wanted to know if the guild or any of its members subscribe to what the Nazis stood for.

I realize this post, if my notion is untrue, will invariably be construed as insulting, and if it is untrue I can only offer my apology. I simply must know, however, if it at all occurred to you that this (http://www.pzg.biz/eagle_party_plaque.jpg) is very identifiable with the appearance of your guild symbol.

~Gravitas

You know, this is gonna come off as extremely...something, but here it is:

Do you seriously fucking believe that this guild would even exist in the games it does if it supported this ideal?

Are you seriously that fucking dense? Since you are all into looking up history, go a little bit further with your in depth research and you will in fact realize that our motto is Latin, that the eagle was used in the Roman symbolism, and that Legion was their term for their armies. (as rids has pointed out)

I know this is a little difficult to see what with your blinding rightousness and all, but if you can take long enough to dredge up the few facts you have busted out to justify this display of ignorance, you can take a few minutes more to look at facts and realize you are wrong.

(and btw, based on my readings, no part of the German Army during hitlers rule was termed a legion, i may be wrong though)

Bugger off and have a nice day.

[Gravitas]

Originally Posted by Bociwen

Do you seriously fucking believe that this guild would even exist in the games it does if it supported this ideal?

Beliefs can remain covert, while symbols allude. It's like giving a nod in a direction rather than outright acknowledgement. It's certainly possible.

Are you seriously that fucking dense? Since you are all into looking up history, go a little bit further with your in depth research and you will in fact realize that our motto is Latin, that the eagle was used in the Roman symbolism, and that Legion was their term for their armies. (as rids has pointed out)

There's no need for all the expletives my unhappy friend. I know your motto and I've been fascinated by it for some time, but simply because it's Latin doesn't imply a direct link to the Romans. As for the term Legion, it has an authoritarian connotation, which was enough for me.

I know this is a little difficult to see what with your blinding rightousness and all, but if you can take long enough to dredge up the few facts you have busted out to justify this display of ignorance, you can take a few minutes more to look at facts and realize you are wrong.

A question is not a display of ignorance. And an apology for "my notion being wrong" was offered beforehand. Sorry it's a little difficult for YOU to see beyond your blinding righteousness, hypocrite.

[Zjozz]

Im from the Netherlands, nuff said.


(queue clog comment etc..)

[Bociwen]

Originally Posted by Gravitas

Beliefs can remain covert, while symbols allude. It's like giving a nod in a direction rather than outright acknowledgement. It's certainly possible.



There's no need for all the expletives my unhappy friend. I know your motto and I've been fascinated by it for some time, but simply because it's Latin doesn't imply a direct link to the Romans. As for the term Legion, it has an authoritarian connotation, which was enough for me.



A question is not a display of ignorance. And an apology for "my notion being wrong" was offered beforehand. Sorry it's a little difficult for YOU to see beyond your blinding righteousness, hypocrite.

You know, my initial reaction to your call of hypocrite was one of iritation, a touch of anger, and a desire to just do everything in my power to make you feel as peeved as I do. But here's the deal; you walked in here, and instead of asking the simple question "hey legion, where did you guys get your motto/logo from?" you decide instead, to be joe smartypants and make your assumption. You even go so far as to apologize, in advance, for the insult you decided to throw at this entire community. Not only does this not even begin to justify the comments, but it also shows that you already knew your assumption to be untrue, yet you went ahead and decided to show us just how ignorant you can be.

I can tell you right now that this shows to me you are not the quality of person we should affiliate ourselves with; furthermore I will do everything in what power I have to see that you do not become part of this community, as I fear the implications and trouble your lack of forsight and common sense may bring us.

Good luck with whatever the hell it is you do, I sincerely hope you find what you are looking for.