Legion: Nazi Symbolism

Anunnak · 13-04-2006, 23:17

This may seem harsh... but Jews werent the only ones to suffer during ww2...
Slavs lost oh what 25-30 million during that conflict? Do we fucking cry about it every chance we get? Do we need to remind others of what happend? NO we know what happened we accept it and move on.

Stop living in the past.

Sin · 14-04-2006, 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anunnak

This may seem harsh... but Jews werent the only ones to suffer during ww2...
Slavs lost oh what 25-30 million during that conflict? Do we fucking cry about it every chance we get? Do we need to remind others of what happend? NO we know what happened we accept it and move on.

Stop living in the past.

You know... I told Ramp I wanted to stay away from any drama related to WoW this time around. Unfortunately, this is something I can't pass up.

Some of you may ask why I am quoting this particular reply, well, the reason is simple. This whole thread, is a debate of symbolism, and what, The Legion, our guild, our online home, represents. We have someone making, what he claims to be an simple question, but also, in the same thread, fore-saw the fact that he would not be accepted into this guild.

How can you ask this sort of question already foreseeing the outcome? You say you simply must know. Honestly though, shouldn't you have done a bit more research. Even if it were only reading the few posts you had access to?

If you ask me, this post I have quoted, is by far, the most educated in the thread I've read. Yes, there have been numerous references to Ancient Rome, and Hilter's adaptation on similar foundations, but, this is what it boils down to.

No. I'm not Jewish. No, The Nazi Regime did not have any immediate effect on me personally, but it had an effect on my family. I am Canadian, as you can see in my avatar just left of my post. I also know it had an effect on Whaambulance's family, who lives one floor above me in my apartment building. In fact, I could almost say it had an effect on pretty much everyone living in my apartment building.

This whole thing, although it may have started as Nazi versus the Jewish People, involed, at the time, a large portion of the semi-large powers of the world. Hence, this war, was dubbed, World War II. This whole occurance didn't just effect two groups of people. This effected a majority of the worlds population. This effected EVERY SINGLE PERSON who fought in this war. This effect, was cause by numerous Countries fighting for the lives of other human beings, in this case, your Ancestors. Taking these factors into mind. You can rightingly assume that anyone knowing what happened in that time would absolutely dispise what the Nazi's stood for and believed in, in a group of people as large as ours.

I'm not saying that the original post was unjustified in his questioning, but, a little bit of common sense, a bit of thought, before a "knee-jerk" reaction, you would have realize that the question you were asking was completely out of place.

Although the people of this Online Gaming community can have our differences, and can show a bit of anominity towards each other from time to time, we are a guild that not only respect our members, but also everyone else that we encounter in our gaming endevours.

I know you said you did moderate research before posting. Moderate to me is a little bit, a little bit converts to a slight idea... And well, a slight idea, isn't something you want to make a post about when it comes to something of this significance.

Gravitas · 14-04-2006, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guntified

How can you ask this sort of question already foreseeing the outcome? You say you simply must know. Honestly though, shouldn't you have done a bit more research. Even if it were only reading the few posts you had access to?

I thought it was far-fetched that anyone here (as in most places in western society) would subscribe to Nazism, yes, but no matter how much I could have researched the guild, there would be no way to entirely alleviate my doubt without asking. I wouldn't have wanted to join a guild only to have discovered later on everyone's a skinhead with memberships in the KKK, or is planting tulips around shrines to Hitler.

I was aware of the Latin phrase and its meaning (it's a favorite of mine actually), and I did know that Roman combat groups were denominated as Legions, though it slipped my mind when I posted. Regardless, one cannot deny that the guild's emblem bears a striking resemblance to not only what the Romans bore, but what Hitler and others bore as well. Numerous members have already acknowledged that it was not unreasonable for me to have had thought the invidious relationship possible. Understandably, most people in the guild thought it ludicrous and absurd to spin up the possibility of a negative interpretation: but it's because they are all familiar with their home. And I didn't mean to come here and trample on that home, only to discover a truth. Hence why I offered my apology beforehand.

As to WWII:

Yes, over 45 million people died. Only 6 million were Jews--but this is out of a world population of only about 9 or 10 million Jews. Over 70% of any group was not lost, and so Jews tend to be a little more wary about pockets of anti-semites after that "lesson."

My question wasn't a "knee-jerk" reaction. It was a question. In my mind only statements can truly be out of place, not questions. It wasn't firm in my mind that anyone here was a national socialist, and I was interested in finding out. If I came here thinking you were all Nazis, and flat-out said so, with righteous indignation, and asked you to prove me wrong, then I would have been way out of place. But as it stands, there's no denying the resemblance of your guild emblem to the Nazi's emblem, and so I felt it was necessary to know the truth. Anything's possible in my mind--I really don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

sLak · 14-04-2006, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravitas

In my mind only statements can truly be out of place, not questions.

Aaaah the inquisitive idiot's last stand!

Seriously though, you must be kidding...

Gravitas · 14-04-2006, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by sLak

Aaaah the inquisitive idiot's last stand!

Seriously tho, you must be kidding...

Nope. The intent of an earnest question is not to insinuate, but to discover. Answers should be treated accordingly.

The problem comes at the level of interpretation, where people ignore the fact that something is asked, rather than imposed.

sLak · 14-04-2006, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravitas

Nope. The intent of an earnest question is not to insinuate, but to discover. Answers should be treated accordingly.

The problem comes at the level of interpretation, where people ignore the fact that something is asked, rather than imposed.

Again, if it was your earnest intent to discover, there were a million other ways to ask.

As for asking a question just being a question... I am sure one of history's most insightfull thinkers (and all who came after him for that matter) wouldn't call his dialectic method 'just questions'. :)

Gravitas · 14-04-2006, 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by sLak

Again, if it was your earnest intent to discover, there were a million other ways to ask.

As for asking a question just being a question... I am sure one of history's most insightfull thinkers (and all who came after him for that matter) wouldn't call his dialectic method 'just questions'. :)

Believe me, there's no fun way to ask the question.

And I'm not Socrates.

Sin · 14-04-2006, 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravitas

My question wasn't a "knee-jerk" reaction. It was a question. In my mind only statements can truly be out of place, not questions. It wasn't firm in my mind that anyone here was a national socialist, and I was interested in finding out. If I came here thinking you were all Nazis, and flat-out said so, with righteous indignation, and asked you to prove me wrong, then I would be way out of place. But as it stands, there's no denying the resemblance of your guild emblem to the Nazi's emblem, and so I felt it was necessary to know the truth. Anything's possible in my mind--I really don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

As I stated. I agree that you question was warranted. Perhaps I should have worded the "out of place" a little better. More so as a time and/or a place. There is never really a good or a bad time for this sort of question, but, as for a place. A public forum is definitely not the place.

Do not get me wrong. I do see where you are coming from, I can understand what you may have felt intially, but on a topic this sensitive, you can't make, or shall I say question, or even insinuate, propose, suggest, whatever you will, something of this magnitude on a public forum.

This is like standing on a stage at a concert and asking the same question of the crowd. I assure you, you would be greeted with the same sort of hostility. Your question is warranted, your reasoning behind the question is clear. The reason you are getting such an up-roar is the manner and place in which the question was presented. Had this question been presented to one of the Command members of Legion, this "flame war" could have been avoided.

Gravitas · 14-04-2006, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guntified

As I stated. I agree that you question was warranted. Perhaps I should have worded the "out of place" a little better. More so as a time and/or a place. There is never really a good or a bad time for this sort of question, but, as for a place. A public forum is definitely not the place.

Do not get me wrong. I do see where you are coming from, I can understand what you may have felt intially, but on a topic this sensitive, you can't make, or shall I say question, or even insinuate, propose, suggest, whatever you will, something of this magnitude on a public forum.

This is like standing on a stage at a concert and asking the same question of the crowd. I assure you, you would be greeted with the same sort of hostility. Your question is warranted, your reasoning behind the question is clear. The reason you are getting such an up-roar is the manner and place in which the question was presented. Had this question been presented to one of the Command members of Legion, this "flame war" could have been avoided.

Agreed.

My apologies for the disruption, then.

streaz18 · 14-04-2006, 07:40

By posting such an obviously inflamitory question on public boards you're just asking for negative attention. Have a little discression next time.

You frenchies and your loud mouths. Always getting everyone all riled up and shouting at one another.

Ramp or someone else: close the thread & ban user please.

Gravitas · 14-04-2006, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by streaz18

By posting such an obviously inflamitory question on public boards you're just asking for negative attention. Have a little discression next time.

You frenchies and your loud mouths. Always getting everyone all riled up and shouting at one another.

Ramp or someone else: close the thread & ban user please.

No, I simply have no fear of consequence. Either people would be calm and rational in response, or they would be belligerent and antagonistic. The choice was always entirely yours. I've seen and heard it all before, and neither way bothers me, and the latter way admittedly becomes very entertaining--but I didn't seek it out.

Besides, this thread has gone a long way in ascertaining the character and intelligence of many of the people in Legion, and certainly ensures that once people leave this thread alone, none shall here hear from me again.